What Losing My Faith Was Like

When I tell people I used to be a Christian there is a temptation to assume that it was caused by a traumatic or horrible event that turned them away from God, but this is far from the truth for most people. So I thought I’d share my story of what it was like. But first some background.

I was raised as a Christian for my entire life, where I went to Church and a Christian primary school. This meant that I prayed and worshipped God 6 times a week until the age of 11, and then once a week at least from the ages of 12-18. So essentially I was strongly religious, and cared a lot about God.

It was not a thing where I never believed strongly, at the time as was just as convinced as any other Christian you may find in Church today? So what happened?

Well it began with a strong faith, that gradually was taken away, without me even really realising it as it happened.

Maybe the first major thing was the acceptance of science, which is a really normal thing, however we’re going back to the start. I studied physics before going to university so I cared a lot about science, but even before then I respected it as fact. Essentially I was not going to let my faith contradict science, if it contradicted with science, that section of the bible was wrong.

So when I learned about all the stories that were incorrect and wrong, I had no problems accepting it. After all, these books were written by men who could make mistakes.

This obviously made me see the bible as not perfect, and fallible. I remember even years before the bible thinking that the bible is so big, and vague at times that you could use it to justify anything, and I was fully aware of contradictions.

How was this? I had small groups and meetings where we would discuss the bible and learn about God, at many occasions we might have disagreements, and how would we resolve these? With bible passages. This meant that we were comparing one verse against another and they clearly stated very different things, contradicting.

Then it’s strange, because past a certain point in my life the teaching stopped being “God is” and changed a lot to “God wants a relationship with you” which is something that I had never heard before previously. This was when I was like 12, then past that point it was reinforced heavily.

Having a relationship with God was something that I tried really hard to have. But it just wasn’t happening. Part of the nail in the coffin was reaching that point after 17 years of realising that my relationship with God just wasn’t there.

Reading the bible was a way that it was told God communicates with you. But most times I read it, there would be problems. The most common one was that it just wasn’t useful at all, and it felt like God wasn’t communicating in any way whatsoever despite opening my heart and praying. There was no chance for anything to happen. Considering that God had to write this for absolutely everyone, it would have been impossible for him to write anything specific and useful to me.

You hear of stories as a Christian, of opening bible pages to a random point and reading a random verse, and it having some huge significance and help. The issue is, every time I did that it was something absolutely crazy, and I did this a lot.

The next thing would be that some parts would be straight up just bad. And I would then have to justify it or willingly ignore it. There was so much I had to just pass and skip through without really thinking about it.

I never did end up reading the full bible as a Christian, but I read a large chunk of it, including nearly all the historical books. Those books now make me sick with how immoral they are, but at the time of reading, I simply didn’t think about it, and just ignored it. Which is just crazy to me. All of these immoral things were in front of me right on the page yet I could not acknowledge them.

So it felt like God had no real way to have a relationship with me using the bible. It just didn’t work for me. At the time it felt like the God of the bible was different to the one in real life.

Obviously the God of the bible physically talked and communicated with people. In my life God did no such thing. Then God became more the God that was preached to you by other people, than what the bible actually said. If they did preach what the bible actually said, I don’t think I would have been a Christian for as long.

So the bible didn’t work. What was left? Well prayer.

I prayed a lot, yet it always felt like I was talking to a brick wall. Any answer would just be a feeling, or one of my own ideas which I would then attribute to God. Never once did he communicate back to me. Which was ridiculously unfair.

Prayer didn’t develop my relationship with God either, when the communication is only one way it cannot possibly develop. People will say that he does answer prayers through feelings and giving you things that you ask for, however even if you take that outlook on life, events like that were still kind of rare.

Then I was asked to make a testimony, for why I became a Christian and why I believe the things that I believe. The issue was, when I really thought about it I didn’t have a lot to say, I believed, because I always had believed.

There were two reasons that I came up with. The first was the historical reliability that Jesus rose from the dead (which I believed to be true because I had done zero research on my own into that idea) was the best explanation for what happened. The second was the miracles that God had done in my life, and the prayers that he answered.

I did get some prayers answered, albeit at the same rate as chance, or at the same rate as things that would have happened anyway. This isn’t something I’m retroactively saying now, it’s something that I thought at the time. In fact I remember telling people stories of miracles that had happened to me knowing that it was likely to have been exactly what happened just to make me look good.

So essentially up until this point it had been observing what happened, and then changing my world view, and view of God accordingly based on what happened in my life. This meant that this vision of an all mighty creator had been replaced with a God who kind of didn’t really do much, and worked in mysterious, and rather stupid (from my perspective) ways. Regardless I did trust that he had all the right answers.

In this way, my faith had changed and deteriorated in rather natural and normal ways. I wasn’t about to start believing that God talks to everyone and is always having a relationship with them when in the past 17 years of my life everything I had done pointed towards the opposite.

However there was still one thing that kept my faith, and it was the only real thing that kept it going for a long time. And that is the miracles that I had seen at events like soul survivor.

I would go to this Christian festival every year for many years in a row, I think I went at least 7 times. And every time there would be prayer, healing, amazing things taking place, and an amazing feeling of the holy spirit.

Due to the way God worked in places like that I clung on to my belief. As I had no explanation other than God for why these amazing things happened.

But I bet that you can tell where this is going. When I found much better explanations for this, I of course seriously started to doubt how genuine these miracles were. I learned about how stuff like this could happen.

In fact this information was something that I never searched for myself, and if my particular interests didn’t take me in a certain direction I would still be a Christian even now.

I became really interested in cults when I was coming towards my deconversion. I learned unwittingly about the techniques they used and all the horrible things that they had involved in them, and slowly started to see them creep into my own religion. Most of this came from a YouTube channel called TellTale who used to be a Jehovah’s witness and had a really interesting perspective.

The stuff I learned about cults were interesting, and allowed me to identify problems with my religion. It also gave me an atheist voice I was a fan of to listen too. This was somebody who I respectively disagreed with, and though his videos were about cults only, his podcasts sometimes made me really think, and I often came to the conclusion that he was right, removing my strong God belief even further.

Then I came across all the religious videos by Derren Brown. It started with his fascinating documentary about psychics, which taught me about cold reading, and how amazing techniques like seeming to know absolutely everything about a person could be easily done. His documentary’s are just fascinating to learn about how the mind works, and they had another one about religious faith healers, exposing their tricks, and how they could artificially produce miracles.

This led me to question the miracles I had seen at soul survivor greatly, and then learn more about them further. I researched how stuff like this could happen, and it almost entirely deconverted me right there. However not completely, because I still had the chance to go to the festival again and think about it for myself.

When I got there it was easy to see how these miracles could happen so easily. They were practically using the techniques I had learned about to mass produce them, knowingly or unknowingly.

I consider myself quite lucky. Because this time they didn’t have quite the success they had had previously, or that was what I thought. Perhaps it was just because I was more aware of what was going on, as I was always looking for these things.

But when it didn’t go well, I saw what they used to try to make it happen. It was so clear to me that I was surprised I didn’t see it sooner.

Another lucky thing happened to me as well, as one of the people I was actually with experienced one of these miracles. I got to ask questions and see what he was like, and quite honestly it was what I would expect to have found.

Essentially it works by instilling the person with a hyper vulnerable and hyper emotional state, and then giving them quick, immediate and overwhelming feelings of love. If this is done in the right way, in situations of high crowd manipulation it can produce serious results, with people who are already really emotionally vulnerable beforehand. If you’re life has been horrible and difficult, and you just really want everything to change, or theirs just one thing that’s always really troubling you, then I honestly consider you a victim of things like this.

But the final nail that really made me stop believing fully was the phrase of the speaker: “We will now pray for physical healing” – for many, many reasons.

This day was the last day, and the last meeting before anybody went home. It was not the first, when you should ideally pray for physical healing.

Essentially there has never been any proof at all of even one time a person has been physically healed through prayer. It also works by dramatically abusing the techniques used earlier, but it’s even worse as they will have a genuine impact on people’s life’s.

If people will throw their medicine away, or do things that they physically cannot do then it will lead to very bad consequences.

It’s an ultimate false hope, as it works by using adrenaline and similar techniques earlier to give the false feeling of being well. The documentary miracles for sale is a good start to learning about things like this.

This happened before at soul survivor, and it had happened to my friends. The people who were healed only went back to the same state they were in previously the next day. It doesn’t work. It’s false hope.

By doing it on the last day of the meeting, they are essentially hoping that these people will go home and have very little contact with these people for as long as possible, without realising that they haven’t been healed.

What makes me feel slightly aware of them knowing about this is that it’s always been on the last day every time they have said this. It really makes me very suspicious of the false hope that this instils.

If they believed that these cures genuinely worked, why not ask for it on the first day? Wouldn’t it be amazing if a person came on crutches and didn’t need them for an entire five days!

The reason why they don’t do this is because it causes problems. The first is everyone realising that these prayers and healing’s didn’t work. The second is people genuinely suffering due to false belief of them being cured.

Anyway after this there was nothing left of my faith really. The relationship with God was dead, and the physical impact that he had in my life was just not there. He was nothing, like a God so absent that he may as well not exist.

So what happened? I continued doing research and found more and more things that were problematic. I looked at both sides as well as many, many debates, and only found myself going the opposite way.

And that’s how it happened.

Thank you for reading.

 

30 thoughts on “What Losing My Faith Was Like

          • Archers Den, thank you for looking at my site ( which is incomplete and out of order). The Bible, old and new Testaments, prophesied these findings,( now we know why all the talk about geometry, degrees, “making God’s paths straight”, “measuring the Temple”, “string lines”, etc.). Same with the spoken-word histories of the Indigenous People of the World ( Note the Dine'( Navajo) Tribe story about their holy mountains being arranged to the four winds ( geometric alignment) Note the Zuni Tribe End-Time prophesy, etc. . Your reply tells me that you have not examined the whole body of evidence. My fault, though, this site has all the pages out of order, and, it is missing many pages. Please view other site at mathematical-signs-of-god.com and just scroll down. Sorry about that, I can not find a template that lets me put pages in order. Also, there is no conspiracies stated at my site. God said in the end times He would do something to make the wise-men ( scientist, academics) of the world look like fools. I was one of them. but math and the physical positions of things do not lie. The stars and continents are moving as we speak, and these alignments are for this time, right now, the end. Like the arms of a clock aligning at midnight. The only way to disagree is to refuse to look at the evidence.

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            • I’ve seen your “evidence.” And I’ve seen other peoples’ ‘evidence,’ and theirs doesn’t agree with yours. Did you know that the four major Egyptian pyramids align with the placement of three of the major, and one minor star? So What??!
              I just had a discussion(?) with a nut-case who had mathematical proof that, since all stars revolve around Polaris, this was PROOF that God had created a flat Earth.
              Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar – and most of the time, ‘mystical alignments’ are just coincidence. God did not create the Earth, so that you, and only you could find these “truths.” 😯

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              • No, Archer’s Den, you are mistaken to lump what I have found with other things. That is not a way to argue with the evidence that I present. Or a way to conduct any kind of a scientific argument. I can see by what you say, that you have not seen my findings on the geometry of the Giza Plateau geological features, and it’s unlocking the pyramids geometry, the geometry of the Nile Delta, it’s geometric connection to The Sinai Wilderness and Holy Mount Sinai, and it’s mathematical positioning to Jerusalem ( and other Holy Sites). It appears you have not reviewed ( or have not remembered) what I have presented, no doubt about that. So many pages I have, it should take a day to read all of it. Please view my other website mathematical-signs-of-god.com it has all the pages in some kind of order. My fault you do not see this ! A poor presentation, sorry. go to other site, thanks.

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                • You aren’t even paying enough attention to notice that you have my blog-site name spelled wrong, yet you want me to take you seriously. It’s just as well. You would probably ascribe evil supernatural, or ridiculous science-fiction values to it, rather than the solid, historical, Greek basis that predates either of them.
                  I’ve only looked at 3 or 4 of your web pages, but it’s obvious that I don’t have to study them all to know that, if a couple of the cards at the bottom are misaligned, eventually the whole house of cards will tumble down. You are making too much stew, with too little oyster.
                  There are millions of scientists, capable of observing all your data. There are tens of thousands of theologians, who would be only too happy to flaunt your work in the face of Atheists and other unbelievers…. IF there were a germ of proof in it. Yet here you are, all alone, like a voice crying in the wilderness, insisting that people ignore all the other silly, false fringe claims, but believe yours – Because you are correct. The amusing part is that the idiot Flat-Earth kid said exactly the same thing. 😳

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                  • Archon’s Den, if me mistaking your blog nick-name sets judgement, and, stops you from viewing, that is the sad thing, all can see. Interesting, though, your de-basing and belittlement words, positioned throughout your “argument” is a lot like someone shooting arrows. You have no case, though, when you cut away the insults and look at what exactly your point is. Perhaps you think you can get a knock-out punch by pointing fingers and yelling ” false claim”, but you got no weight to your rebukes, it is all colorfully-worded smear, and an attempt to associate me with known crazy theories. This is not a way to have a scientific discourse, Archon’s Den . Onward : People have shown that Leonardo Da Vinci has layed-out his his paintings using the same math and method as God has done with the Heavens and Earth. Nobody denies Da Vinci did this, or, dares to debunk these mathematically arranged paintings, because there is physical proof. We can all see that the edge of a hand in his painting in on the 67.5 degree line from another visual ” landmark ” in his painting. Nobody in his right mind can deny that these objects painted are at mathematical positions. We all understand that. This mathematical method is exactly what is the case with what I present. Instead of painted objects on a canvas, it is geological landmarks, peninsulas, holy mountains, holy sites and historic places on Earth, and, in the stars. The only difference is the mediums used, and, the scale. Think about it Archon’s Den, is not this something that God would do as a practical thing ? A way to show a young species, that He made them, showing the world the scale of us-to -Him. Would not He figure-out a way to humble us before the day of visitation ? I provide concrete, measurable evidence, and your only strategy to rebuke is to smear and deny evidence, and, to lump these findings together with unrelated known crazy theories. on top of that deceiving game, you sprinkle this unfair, cheater’s style of debate with insults and put-downs. That is not a good thing to do. The only way for you to think you are right is by the refusal to view all the evidence. That is unfortunate. Because there is some really neat stuff here, it goes beyond just math alignments, it is art, God’s art. It is really awesome stuff !

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        • Hey your comment can be as long as you like. No such thing as too much information. If you claim to have the answers I want to talk about it, you can copy and paste your own blog post for all I care if you don’t want to repeat work. Perhaps something specific and relevant would be more ideal than an entire blogs worth of content don’t you think?

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          • Thanks rossiroad, but I don’t know how to cut and paste, and, it is a lot of information. To sum: It starts with the facts that Easter/ Rapa Nui Island ( whose peninsulas align to form a perfect 45/90 degree triangle tilted at 22.5 degrees(1/2 of 45), is 90 degrees below the Dine’ ( Navajo Tribe) Holy Mountains. And it turns out that from the intersect-point of the 90 line from the eastern-most point of Easter Island, and the 180 from the tip of a visual eye-catching geological landmark mesa shaped like an arrow or angled point, that, from this intersect point, all the Dine’, Zuni, Hopi, Acoma, Acoma Tribe Holy Mountains, and, their pueblos, plus other landmarks, are located at the basic mathematical angles of a 360 degree compass, cut into equal parts. For instance, the Hopi, Zuni, Acoma, Laguna Holy Mountain in New Mexico is at a 50 degree angle from center-point. And upon closer look, the peaks of the mountain are aligned on that 50 degree line. And beyond that line is the Laguna Tribe Pueblo. Famous Chaco Canyon Is at a mathematical 36 degrees, where the archeological structure Pueblo Bonito, and, the famous pictograph is on that 36 degree line( see the pages on Chaco) This story keeps going all over the world, very very neat stuff here. The Holy Mountains of China, Japan and Korea and the world are all connected in some basic math angle. This pattern continues into the stars themselves. Where the stars in the famous constellations are arranged at basic angles, see Orion, and it’s 90 degree, 60 degree, etc, angles. On and on it goes. I ask you to go to my other site that has the case layed-out in an order, go to mathematical-signs-of-god.com , I think the site that this comment is linked to is the one where I can not figure-out how to put the story in order. It just puts my posts at the most recent first. I have written these findings into a cold science paper published in 2017 by Academia Arena, and have been sending all findings to the press, scientific institutions, universities for years. As you will be able to see, the evidence is sound math, and physical objects, and it can not be debunked. confronted with these findings, I had to change my agnostic/ almost atheistic views. The first clues to this discovery was in 2013, when I figured-out that the volcanoes and geological features of planet Mars are positioned at basic mathematical angles, that reveal a 45 and 180 degree pattern that divides the planet’s circumference into 5 equal parts. Plus more neat stuff. When I first found this, I thought I would be proving all the religions wrong, but, upon unraveling this story, and seeing that the Bible and other ancient text and spoken-word histories prophesied these very findings, I came to see that this is all about God, and Jesus is the main part of this message. ( it also shows that Buddha and other religiouns, and their holy sites are part of God’s pattern as well). Go to the site where the case is presented in order, and view the evidence. Thank you for letting me use your comments section to spread the news ! Look for the book at your local bookstore

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            • This is not where I expected this to go! Ok so first of all even if this was sufficient evidence for God, it would only lead to a deistic worldview. These patterns and designs could have been done by any God, not just the one you believe in. If you want to get to Christianity your work is still far ahead of you.

              What are the spiritual reasons why a God might leave these patterns? They just felt like it? They thought it would be sufficient proof?

              There are vastly more places of the world where this cannot be seen. Rare events like this are to be expected.

              Calling these rare geometrical events Gods proof just seems to me a sheer underestimation of the number of places and possible patterns there are. This kind of thing is, well normal.

              There are just so many different ways to draw lines I also see it as being easy to get a lot of patterns that you want.

              I also question how this could lead you to change your views completely. Is not the idea that this thing is common enough? Or that it can be worked out to have happened naturally?

              I just don’t see the link, especially the Christian link.

              No problem, sharing opinions is a good thing. If thiests and non-theists are actually talking, then at least the conversations going somewhere and something’s happening. Its bad to just stick to your own group without engaging or looking at the opposition.

              I could have written you off easilly however I’m really much happier to talk about it, as you will get nowhere by simply dismissing people.

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              • “This is not where I expected this to go! ”

                I almost spit my beer on my monitor when I read that!

                I saw the threads you had developed, so I was expecting some kind of related response.

                I wonder if geological formations that don’t align would constitute a counter-proof? Maybe heresy or apostasy?

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                • Haha, glad I made this response like right before you looked! For the record, every single thing after that was related!

                  Hey whatever it counts as, theirs a heck of a lot more of it!

                  I think your awesome man, “I almost spit my beer” made me laugh so bad 😂😂😂

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                  • I’ll try, rossiroad. One of the reasons that these findings show that Jesus is a main part of this message written in Earth and in the Heavens, is that the “theme” is there from the start, and, all the way through. Easter Island is the natural first place to put a protractor. Seeing that Easter Island/ Rapa Nui was discovered Easter Sunday, and that the Native peoples call the island ” the navel of the world”, right off the bat, it tells me that God has somehow manipulated our thinking and movements. It told me that God seems to be communicating to all cultures, telling a story that will eventually unite us. Similar to the Bible paragraph about ” the pattern of the altar. So one day you will see you are all of God.” So, as you pull on this string, this theme continues to pan-out, all over the world, and into the stars and Heavens. Go to my other site, mathematical-signs-of-god.com and scroll down the pages,, and all your questions will be answered. Please take the time to look closely, and see how these lines hit definite visual landmarks, and not random points. There is no vagueness in the alignments, as is seen on other sites. These are not just random lines, they are specific mathematical degrees of a 360 degree compass rose.

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                    • That is actually impossible. God could not influence free will even if he was real.

                      Its like it was called easter island because it was discovered on easter sunday. There are many, many islands which were discovered on many different days, it makes sense that one was discovered on Easter Sunday and therefore named Easter Island. Its just not unusual.

                      You think Gods plan will eventually unite us? Haven’t you read revelation? The book that tortures for many years non christians, eventually throwing them in a lake of fire. That’s where the plan ends, its a horrific plan.

                      I just don’t get how this could possibly prove any God. The plural of really obscure and unlikely patterns is not fact. Especially coupled with the idea that stuff like this is to be expected occasionally and has geographic natural explanations

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                    • God can not influence our free will ? Look how humans can affect other people’s free will; note the science of advertising and propoganda. The human brain can be easily manipulated with mere suggestions. This is why the advertising industry is a trillion-dollar business, it works. This is why political powers want control of medias, such as radio, newspapers, TV, computer, our thoughts can be influenced, easily, with simple suggestion. What is frightening is that now we are learning about the human brain like never before. There are published tests where our brain-waves can be manipulated from an outside source. I believe a recent test, a university was able to ” beam” a photograph into someone’s mind, and the person could see it. Frightening stuff, when you think how mankind has used all technological advancements to do evil things. So, humans, who picked-up their first tool about 50,000 years ago, has now reached this point of reading and influencing brainwaves, be it a ” beam’ mimicking brain-waves, or simple suggestion, such as showing someone a color, a photograph, or, an advertisement. Point being, if a culture as young as us is this far advanced, what can a culture, or, civilization do that has picked up their first tool a zillion years ago do ? How about the one who is the oldest of them all ? God, the first and the last ? How advanced do you think He is ? What we are witnessing here is God’s method of nurturing a civilization and people to a state of peace. But, to do that, He, unfortunately, has to stand-back and let humans make mistakes, even if they are horrendous evils. In my finding of God, I was at a point where I was mad at Him for allowing this evil and war to happen. Then, while dreaming one night, November 11, 2018 ( 100th anniversary of the end of World War I), I heard this authorative person say, ” because war brings about a distaste for war”. This is the only time I have ever remembered a quote from a dream. Does not that make sense ? How can we learn something is bad, unless we experience it ? And if God is trying to nurture us to peace, He may want to even create circumstances to get this horrible lesson done with as soon as possible. Because if we do not get war out of our system before we are technologically advanced, we will destroy ourselves and the world. And this is the point we are at now. A big war now, with or without nukes, could do irrevocable harm. By Him arranging our Earth and the Heavens into a visual riddle, also based on a simple math that allows proof of design to be established, this is also a way to humble the people. To give us an idea of the scale of us to Him. How He can move us and our histories around like chess pieces, while we think we have free-will. View mathematical-signs-of-god.com for the whole story

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                    • I’m pretty sure I said he cannot control it. If God knows exactly what we will do and can influence people to do the exact things he knows they’ll do, then that’s essentially no different from controlling, which he doesn’t do.

                      We have to experience things to know they’re bad? I’m pretty sure rape is bad but I’ve never experienced it. Are we supposed to go and find out? Of course not, because our moral reasons already tell us its wrong.

                      What is the purpose of a God if not to warn us away from these things, supposedly your only supposed to know if something is wrong by experiencing it, not because God says so I guess.

                      If your goal is to maximise wellbeing, then pretty much everything can be inferred without experiencing it. Your statement is an excuse.

                      You have not proved design. The only way we know design from indesign is by comparing it. If your God idea is real, then there isn’t even anything to compare it to that is not designed, so effectively theirs no way to know.

                      Its confusing why this is enough evidence for you

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                    • Design is proven by redundant mathematical aligns of visually and historical landmarks. This is just like SETI searching for signs of intelligent life by looking for a mathematical sequence, such as prime numbers. Because they know that a radio signal of prime numbers is not possible by chance. All of science agrees with this mathematical premis of proving intelligent communication/ design. This is exactly what these findings are, but, instead of radio-blips of prime numbers, it is visual landmark/ famous mountains, peninsulas, and stars and galaxies positioned at the math angles of a circle cut into equal parts. Science says all this should located at random positions, since it is” natural”. What I show, is that not only are these famous/ landmark spots in a mathematical pattern, there is also mathematical exercises here, example: where you see two 40 degree angles, then in the same location you see an 80 degree, and a 20 degree. This repeated case of a math exercise happening is another layer of proof of design. As far as God not behaving as we would like Him too, that’s part of how it is. We are a young species, and to think things should be to how we imagine it should, is wrong. Like when we were children, and could not understand why our parents disciplined us, or had rules. It is hard to understand the strategy or methods of someone who is a zillion and a zillion-squared old. It stands to reason that we would not understand all that is happening. See my other wordpress site mathematical-signs-of-god.com to view the overwhelming catalogue of evidence. It should take you several hours to view and examine it all if you look at the details. A quick look or scan will not do here. Devote the concentration and time.

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                    • Its a bad sign when to try and prove intelligent design you need to search for it to such a ridiculous extent.

                      Everything we have points towards non intelligent design. We have evolution, how we came from very simple beginnings as wellcas the big bang, how everything could have come naturally from one event. Everything is being explained, and its natural. The second law of thermal dynamics says that over time, randomness increaces, meaning our origins would have been very simple. From what can we see, this is true. A god would make everything infinitely more complicated.

                      Its funny how either God being so absent that he may as well not exist, or being so ridiculously stupid in demonstrating his existence is called mysterious ways.

                      The time to believe in something is when its been proven. God has not done that so far. In fact the lack of evidence seems telling.

                      I also find it strange to call this an inteligent design. Humans have many genetic faults and the universe is 99.99999% uninhabitable. Its exactly what you’d expect to see from a natural universe

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                    • Sounds like you will only accept things that are just how you imagine them to be. Anything not in agreement with your theories, hopes, and conjectures, you can not give the time to review. Your arguements even deny the very basics methods of science discovery and history. I am sorry to say, you do not have much of an arguement, and you question basic aspects of science inquiry. Example: To find an alien radio-signal in a math sequence, you have to LOOK for it. discoveries happen because people have hunches and they look for proof. Things in science and life are not put in our laps. You seem to not accept things because things are not how you imagined them to be. I bring solid, physical, measurable evidence, based on simple mathematics using time honored and acceptable/ traditional scientific methods of proof. I also see you have not viewed my other site, so it appears you just wish to argue. Praise Jesus, God’s Son and The Messiah, He is on His way.

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                    • That just isn’t true, many times I’ve changed my mind. Most notibly from religious to non-religious – which is a major thing to do. Contradicting what you just said. And of course if I felt reasonably convinced of the opposite, I would change my mind, because you follow the evidence where it points.

                      I’ve given you my opinions on why I don’t accept what your saying. If you can explain why its wrong, and it is actually wrong, then of course I will believe you.

                      Well to be specific the scientific method is where you start with a hypothesis, and then test it. Then if the hypothes is proven to be correct, you believe it to be true, if not, you don’t believe it to be fact. It is only reasonable to believe it after its been proven.

                      That wasn’t really my main point. I was just trying to convey the idea of how funny it is that you claim inteligent design, but its indistinguishable to non-design without extreme and thorough research.

                      This certaintly is evidence, of what I’m still trying to figure out. Like theirs steps in between this and God that this is better evidence towards, deism for one, strange laws of nature we haven’t researched enough another.

                      Is this evidence honestly good enough for you? Its just, I’m trying to understand how this is compelling. If these patterns never, ever happened, would that be enough to make you disbelieve? I’m just wondering if theirs a different reason for your belief. I just don’t get it.

                      I believe that your sincere, and have heavilly researched this subject greatly. I think your work is good, just better in an “Interesting facts about the world we live in” book than “the proof for God” book. I’m sorry if thats rude, just want to say I respect the research but disagree with the conclusion.

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                    • You got to view the case presented at mathematical-signs-of-god.com , until then, you have only viewed the pages of a book that are not in order. And, not all the pages are included. I am sorry, I can not get this site to look like my other site. It puts my post on display and I can’t get it to show pages in an order. Again, view the avalanche of evidence, showing the alignment of Holy Mountains and archeological and Holy sites, using the same mathematical angles, over and over and over again. This is what science calls proof. It shows that these aligns are not coincidence. It is called mathematical odds, and it has been used to prove many many many things in science and in life. When you see these pages, you will also see that this is more than just math alignments, you will see there is a story, a link between these aligns and the recorded history of these sites we are looking at and align. Amazing it is. The more you know about history, the more you see this is in sync with the pattern. As of now, you are concluding without review of evidence. What may be confusing you is that I am taking the time to show you personally my case. These findings have been in scientific peer review for several years now, and not one has dared put their name to a written debunk. Because, upon review, one sees that math and the position of physical things do not lie. What bothers some people is that they do not like the religious aspect of what I have found. But as I have said to you, and the pages of evidence shows, that these findings are all about God, Jesus, Holy Mary, and all the world’s religion’s and Tribe’s, and their holy sites, and how they are connected, and how their ancient text and spoken-word histories prophesy these findings. Until you view my other site, you have not viewed the story. How can you be drawing a conclusion ?

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                    • Well I admit I have not read your three hours worth of blog posts. But I’m talking assuming that you are correct.

                      I just don’t see the link between this evidence and any God, especially Yahweh.

                      My view of Gods attitude to free will is, and always was as a Christian that he doesn’t influence it. So the storys don’t especially mean a lot to me.

                      Then what you have left is just patterns that we’ve found, many only special because you give them meaning, when in reality they’re just as likely as any other shape.

                      I have no problems accepting that there are these patterns, its just I don’t see how the conclusion could possibly follow.

                      For example you mentioned that one of the shapes was the star of David, so how do you know that doesn’t mean the Jew’s are right? If theirs many different symbols it could be any God relevant to the symbol? If you found a shape of a culboard would that prove the Roman God of cupboards? How can you rule him out so easilly? At best your argument gets to deism, but I still don’t get why these patterns couldn’t have possibly occoured naturally.

                      To be fair a debunking isn’t really needed until its gained much traction.

                      I don’t think anyones doubting the maths, just the conclusion.

                      I also have another question, doesn’t the massive amount of evidence against intelligent design count? Like if you compare the stuff you call intelligent design against everything else its massively outnumbered. Just one specific case (of which within that case there are very few examples) wouldn’t really be enough to outweight the mammoth case for the opposite. This is like bringing a small folder against the entire internet!

                      This is what it feels like when you present this case. It always leaves you with the question “Is this really good enough evidence for you?”

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                    • rossiroad, if you don’t look at evidence, you cant make a conclusion. Your questions are answered in the evidence provided, yet you won’t look. Again, these points of this “connecting the dots” exercise are not random, average points amongst millions of others that look like them. These are visually and historically significant sites. Just like the stars in the sky, only the stars that are bright make up the constellations. And here on Earth, it is only the geological features that are visual landmarks, perhaps they are the tallest in the area, or, they have been identified by the local population as holy. In other words, they are the ” bright” points. This fact is important. The other ways you propose to try to debunk this are not based on reason. Because, if we applied those test to other accepted scientific facts, they would fail, too. Think about it. With the test and questions you give, we could say the sky is not blue. As regards to the different religious symbolism, what God has done in His Riddle Of The Cosmos, He figured-out a way to visually show that He has been apart of all people and religions. Because, the Jesus theme is the obvious center of His visual communication and message. ( plus the amazing alignments of the Miracle Sites Of The Virgin Mary, which includes the WOW Signal, by the way), He made sure that all peoples where represented. Remember, the perfect Star Of Israel seen in the Rosette Nebula, is drawn with lines that are connected to visual ” landmarks”, not just random things. When you look close, it as an amazing piece of art, and you can see the geometric star-shape even before drawing the lines ( which is what led me to look, that, and that it is mathematically located within the star map and to Orion. If you do not look at all the evidence, how do you conclude ? Who does that ? That is what I like about God’s message, it is also a test for people, to see who are the ones who can take the time to look at evidence, even though the conclusion’s are beyond their imaginations and beliefs. It is a great test of character, and of mind. Will a scientist who scoffs at religious people for not looking at the evidence for evolution, will they themselves not thoroughly view evidence ? I got a strong, iron-clad case, made by God Himself, He put the proof in His design. Math and physical position of landmarks and holy-sites do not lie or confuse. The odds of all these mathematical alignments happening, with the same angles, over and over and over, plus the little math exercises within, plus, with the prophesies of the ancient religious texts and spoken-words of our history matching what is found, is beyond calculation. Impossible to make-up, fake, or be mistaken. What is presented is the equivalent of spinning a roulette wheel, and it keeps on landing at the same numbers, and it even starts to do math ( red 20, red 20, red 40,). Your rebukes are lacking. Plus, you will not even review the evidence. Any outside viewers of this conversation in the future will see this. View the pages at other site, there is some really really neat stuff, all based on mathematical measurements, not conjecture, as seen in Ancient Alien shows and other sites.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • That’s not even true, we have no way to know at all how big the odds are, we have no way of telling. For all we know the odds of this stuff happening from the big bang could be 100%.

                      Also whose saying I scoff at you? I just don’t see a link between what you’ve found and a God. I suppose the reason why I haven’t looked is that I don’t think it’s wrong, it’s that I don’t even think it’s evidence. What you’re saying whether it’s true or not has no impact on my belief in God, because I disagree with the nature of the evidence, and what the evidence would prove if it was true.

                      If I had infinite time I would have a look at it, at least a little. But for now I can barely even finish my work on time. It makes no sense to look at this site at all when what it claims wouldn’t even impact my beliefs.

                      I’ve said already that I didn’t believe God influenced free will, so those sites are no better than coincidence to me.

                      I also think probability is interesting, stuff that you’ve mentioned earlier is likely to happen at some time and at some point just because there are that many things in the world.

                      I think this is a question that would help you get to me, depending on the answer. Where abouts in the world can you not see these patterns, and on how big a scale?

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